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Feedback Page #1
Regarding the listing of
Counselors alleged to be unethical
or unprofessional in their use of
MFT, MHC, & ABS credentials.
LETTERS:
Correspondence arranged starting with most recent communications:
Accusations of vicious motives and malicious attacks on initials...
A. March 19, 2007 [RE: "ABS" acronym]
Mr. Else,
I've been reading through your letters about the acronym
and initial thing. I find it to be entirely a vicious motive on your part
inspired by altruistic intent. I can accept that you are looking out for
the best interests of the "Client" but to what end? Let's look at this
whole thing from a perspective of a client.
Clients that search out counseling services are, on the
whole, pretty intelligent. They can discern that both the initials in
question here are of the same. No difference. And those don't discern it,
don't care as their issues are the core concern.
Isn't that the purpose of CounselingSeattle.com? To
connect clients with competent and caring counselors?
I think that you've
forgotten that much of this jargon is secondary to helping people. That's
what we do, that's what we are. We are of the helping profession. We
aren't of the slander profession... leave that to the Hollywood tabloids.
Besides, this is the 21st century. Any person can access
the engines and just type in an initial and find everything about it. These aren't state secrets here...very few counselors are unethical to
the point of touting false and misleading initials for profit. Yes, there
are those that do but then again, Counseling is just like any other
service. Clients will do sufficient background info for their own comfort.
Help comes from many places Mr. Else and I'm quite
certain it doesn't come from malicious attacks on initials that are widely
used and accepted throughout the country. Again, the issues are of the
grieving client, the problematic issues for the client....
Why have you championed such a cause as this? This isn't
so much a dead issue as it is a non issue. This isn't an attack on you
solely Mr. Else, there are vicious letters posted on your website. Those
are equally upsetting. I'm just somewhat sad that this discussion is even
an issue....
Raymond Xxx, GC-C, SMC-C
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B.
Hi:
In this case, I will address the website readers, rather than respond
to Raymond.
I should mention that
Raymond works as an on-line, email-counselor. I have communicated with
him only by email. When I visited his website, I searched in vain for any indication of
his academic qualifications or his address. I suspect he omits the
location to avoid state regulators who might otherwise take action against
an unlicensed counselor.
Raymond uses only the
credentials "GC-C, SMC-C" which means he has a certificate in grief
counseling and in stress counseling from an association that does not
require an academic degree, any previous training, nor any other
professional counseling credentials.
Like Raymond,
I am also sad that it is necessary to publicly rebuke counselors who (mistakenly or
deliberately) mislead potential clients about their qualifications by using a
portion of their degree title as part of their counseling credentials--in
this instance the initials "ABS." [And "ABS" is
neither "widely used" nor "accepted throughout the country"
as Raymond would have you believe.]
As Raymond claims, there is a lot of information on the web--in fact there
is often too much information. If you go to
Google.com and type in
ABS, you will find about 182,000,000 pages listing "ABS"--Albino
Blacksheep, ABS Computers and the American Bureau of Shipping!
The client who goes on the web
and uses
Acronym Finder to
find out what "ABS" means will find 104 definitions for the acronym ABS. At
the end of their list, Acronym Finder adds a footnote mentioning
an additional 250 definitions available at another location.
See: The first 104 meanings of "ABS."
If a counselor wants to
identify his degree program, he should do so in a sentence, such as: "I have a master's degree in applied
behavior science." He should not identify himself
as, "John Smith, MA, ABS." Presented as whole words rather than added to
the "counselor initials," they are less likely to mislead the public into
believing that the added initials represent additional or superior qualifications,
as implied by the "ABS" initials.
Actually, even most counselors don't
know exactly what "applied behavioral science" means.
It is not a degree or curriculum term that is standardized or widely used.
The words mean nothing to a potential client.
I have never met a Bastyr LIOS alumni who
admitted to consciously using "ABS" to mislead the public. In
fact, one well-intentioned counselor friend told me, " I use the ABS after my MA,
but not to mislead people. Besides, I'm about to get my license
(LMHC) and I won't need to use it (the ABS initial) any more."
Floyd Else, MA, LMHC, NCC
Webmaster: http://www.CounselingSeattle.com
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Is this a Critical Letter ???
A.
From: Ann Becker, MA ABS
To: Floyd Else, CounselingSeattle.com
Subject: I thought this was a joke when I heard about it!!!
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007
Dear Floyd,
After reading the propaganda and odd interpretation on
your web-site regarding the use of MA/ABS I think you are a total nut
job!! You mention that you have spent a bunch of time
investigating acronyms??? Then after researching ABS why don't you
just say that it stands for Applied Behavioral Science? What is
the big deal? Integrity... ethics... are you kidding me? I
think it is you that has some weird God-Complex regarding this issue...
You know what they say about the guy pointing the finger? There are
three pointing back. It seems as if you have a lot of time on your
hands.
No person I have ever met has been the least
"confused" or "mis-led" by the letters after my name and if they are
curious--they ask! Additionally, I have found in the past that the
training and branch of psychology a person studies is very indicative of
their style of therapy. I wish more therapists cited after their
name what they studied... because, as you write, a person seeking help,
depressed, mentally ill, or grieving should understand who they are
receiving guidance from and what principles and values likely guide
their practice.
You think LIOS alum spent $40,000 on three additional
letters that might give more status? THAT IS SO RIDICULOUS!
I got an amazing education that I am proud of and I will continue to use
ABS! In fact, I do look for LIOS MA/ABS practitioners... our
studies focused on experiential adult learning theory, whole systems
thinking, and family of origin... Personally, I would not want a
therapist or executive coach that did not have this background.
Wait!!! I just figured it out. If more people
did have their field of study after their name that would decrease the
perceived value of the service your website offers... hmmm....
You are obviously passionate about this "cause" but I
really wonder exactly what you will have accomplished at the end of
this? At the end of your life will you really say "Boy, I made a
difference because no one is using ABS after their name!" My great
sadness is that there were so many people bullied by you and conceded as
if they really did something wrong!!! Actually, what is sadder and
more disturbing is that with your passion and conviction you could have
impacted an issue that really was significant and meaningful.... Worry
about yourself. You are not protecting anyone--only harassing the
innocent!
As I read through your feedback page I did not see
one person thanking you for your bizarre attack... that alone tells me
something... I am looking forward to a ranting reply back--just like
all the others. I hope you quote the bible to me... I haven't seen that
yet.
May the new year bring you more productive pursuits!
Ann Becker, MA ABS and "ethically" proud of it !!!
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B.
From: Floyd Else
To:
Ann Becker
Subject: "ABS: I thought this was a joke when I heard about it!!"
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007
Dear Ann Becker, MA ABS:
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with me.
Please note that nowhere in my
comments have I belittled the education that Bastyr University LIOS
graduates receive. And I must confess that I have had a policy of only
publishing negative letters that I receive. I have deliberately NOT
included letters that praise or congratulate me.
If I were to stick-on the extra letters
from my diploma in my signature block, it would read "Floyd Else, MA,
CE." If I understand your argument, you believe that were I do so,
the public would better understand my philosophy, values, or
effectiveness--or even the scope of my training.
My training (like yours) included experiential adult learning theory,
whole systems thinking, and family of origin issues as well as many
other matters. Do you really believe that knowing that someone
with a degree that includes the words "Applied Behavioral Science"
informs the typical mental health consumer about the principles and
values that guide your practice?
The vast majority of LIOS graduates have
always used plain "MA" for their degree, simply because they recognized
that is the industry standard. My campaign is intended to inform
the public that those extra initials "ABS" have no significant special
meaning and that in my humble opinion those who use them are (to that
degree) lacking in the areas of both ethical and professional standards.
Best wishes in the new year.
Floyd Else, MA, LMHC, NCC, MAC
Webmaster http://www.CounselingSeattle.com
PO Box 6714
Bellevue, WA 98008-0714
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Does it make an ethical difference?
1.
From: Peter Xxxxxx
To: Floyd Else
Subject: Coaches
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006
Floyd,
Jill Xxxxxxx, on your ABS page, is a coach, not a counselor (RC or LMHC)
and therefore isn't covered by the state laws you are citing. She was a
Bastyr LIOS CCO grad (that's different than the counseling or SC track).
Just an FYI.........Peter
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2.
From : Floyd Else
Sent : Tuesday, October 31, 2006
To : Peter Xxxxxx
Subject : Coaches or Counselors???
Does it make an
ethical difference?
Dear Peter:
Thanks for pointing out the problem of the "Coach" category. To the best of my
knowledge, Washington State law does not recognize this type of "coaching." Many of the so-called coaching activities
are in fact "counseling" under state law. I would expect this issue to
be dealt with in the future in a legislative session.
Take a look at the legal definition of counseling in Washington State.
Revised Code of Washington--RCW 18.19.020 Definitions.
Unless the context clearly requires otherwise, the definitions in this
section apply throughout this chapter.
(1) "Client" means an individual who receives or participates in
counseling or group counseling.
(2) "Counseling" means employing any therapeutic techniques, including
but not limited to social work, mental health counseling, marriage and
family therapy, and hypnotherapy, for a fee that offer, assist or
attempt to assist an individual or individuals in the amelioration or
adjustment of mental, emotional, or behavioral problems, and includes
therapeutic techniques to achieve sensitivity and awareness of self and
others and the development of human potential. For the purposes of this
chapter, nothing may be construed to imply that the practice of
hypnotherapy is necessarily limited to counseling.
(3) "Counselor" means an individual, practitioner, therapist, or analyst who engages in the practice of counseling to the public for a fee,
including for the purposes of this chapter, hypnotherapists.
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I would maintain that the majority of so-called coaching activity
falls within the legal definition of counseling (above), especially given the broad
scope of counseling "to achieve sensitivity and awareness of self and
others and the development of human potential." So it is possible that
the person you refer to is not only misusing the "ABS" acronym, but is
violating Washington State law by practicing counseling while failing to
obtain the necessary registration or licensure from the state as
required by law.
Just as important, the code of ethics for coaches indicates that it
is improper to mislead clients as is done by using the strange "ABS"
acronym in the counselor/coach's credentials.
Internation Coach Federation
The ICF Code of Ethics
Part Three: The ICF Standards of Ethical Conduct
Professional Conduct with Clients
14. I will accurately identify my qualification, expertise and
experience as a coach.
15) I will not intentionally mislead or make false claims about what my
client will receive from the coaching process or from me as their coach.
16. I will not give my clients or prospective clients information or
advice I know or believe to believe to be misleading.
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Now look at this example:
James Smith, MA, coach
Sally Jones, MA, ABS, coach
In the example above,
Sally's use of the strange acronym "ABS" falsely implies that
she has additional certification or licensure beyond
the Master of Arts degree. It gives Sally an unfair advantage over
her fellow "coach" James Smith whose qualifications (in this
example) are
exactly the same.
I can't think of any professional field that MA, ABS would not be
misleading advertising and contrary to good public policy.
Can you?
Floyd Else, MA, LMHC
Webmaster: http://www.CounselingSeattle.com
PO Box 6714, Bellevue, WA. 98008-0714
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Call to action.
From: Sheryl Xxxxx"
A.
To: Floyd Else
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006
Take my name off of your "unethical practices" list IMMEDIATELY! I have
contacted the moderator of the deafweb list and told him to remove the
ABS.
I am furious that you would do this to all of us and to me specifically.
I HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG and you have slandered me. You have a lot of
nerve considering your very own website is deceptive and misleading
since you don't clearly state that you don't represent any official
mental health organization. Your buried disclaimer is not exactly up
front.
I expect you to clear any references to my name as unethical.
Sheryl Xxxxx MA (formerly I guess ABS), LMHC
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From : Floyd Else
B.
Sent : Sunday, October 15, 2006
To : Sheryl Xxxxx
Subject : People Pointing at the "ABS" Acronyn
Dear Sheryl Xxxxx:
That's interesting! I don't think that there is any claim on my website
that either I or the site represent some mental health organization.
If you are aware of anywhere that I give such an impression, please let
me know so that I can correct it.
The bulk of my campaign has been directed at Bastyr University LIOS for
misinforming graduates that it was all right to use the "MA, ABS" acronym. [Note:
that policy was reversed in October 2006.]
You are merely listed as one of many who have been lulled into a pattern
of behavior that I believe is both unprofessional and unethical.
(The list is one that anyone could find using a search engine.) I
have included on the same page, both the state law and codes of ethics
on which my opinion is based.
You might be interested to find that Bastyr University has completed a
review of their degree acronym designations and determined as of October
20, 2006, the MA designation will be utilized for the Master of Applied
Behavioral Science degree. They also wanted to be removed from my
pages, but I have asked them first to tell me how and where they planned
to announce this change and how they would notify the alumni (such as
yourself) who have graduated from their program during the last 13
years.
I will be meeting early next month with a representatives from the
Attorney General's office and the state health department to see what
additional action may be taken on this matter, in the coming year.
Thanks for your email letting me know that you have initiated action to
have the acronym ABS removed from your credentials as published on
xxxxweb.org [A third-party site.]
I checked the site today and the ABS initials have not yet been removed.
When you get a response the webmaster or find that it has been removed,
please let me know and I will certainly remove your name.
Sincerely,
Floyd Else, MA, LMHC
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C.
NOTE: On 10/16/06 the offending "ABS"
acronym was removed from the listing on the offending third-party
website and Sheryl Xxxxx was removed from the
list of "ABS" examples.
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Call to action.
From: Christine xxxxxxxxx
1.
To: Floyd Else
Subject: Questions
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006
Dear Floyd,
We have never met each other, so I was very surprised to find my name
listed as using unethical practices by using my degree title of MA ABS. I
am also a LMHC ( and have had a private practice in xxxxxxx and xxxxxxxxxx
for the past 11 years) , but LMHC was not listed
referring to which is my teaching all day at the xxxxxxxxxx Arts
Conference.
I am certified to teach xxxxxxxxx xxxxxx Dance/ Movement Practice ( it is
a meditation practice) and have studied with her for 18 years now. I am
teaching at that conference because of that body of work and it does not
have to do with my therapy practice. I was asked what my degree was and I
told them. All of us who graduated from LIOS where told to use MA ABS and
I thought that was because there were different Masters in different areas
and that simply informs someone about the area of your study.
It is presumptive to assume that this was done to be unethical or in any
way gain an advantage. That is totally untrue.If you have a problem
with MA ABS, it should be taken up with Bastyr University LIOS and innocent peoples' names
should not be bandied around. Until this is settled in a reasonable way,
please remove mention of my name about a one day conference I am teaching
movement at, from your list. I would appreciate a reply to this e-mail.
Thank you.
Christine xxxxxxx
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Dear Christine XXXXXXX:
2.
Thank you for your comments. I do not have a problem with "MA ABS." YOU
have a problem with "MA ABS."
Your claim that Bastyr LIOS did not teach its students about ethical and
professional behavior--or misled you--does not make you immune from
ethical or legal standards. For for example, if you claimed that LIOS
encouraged students to drink and drive, that could not be used as a
defense, if you were charged with drunk driving.
By normal, widely accepted standards, your degree is an MA. Adding the
"ABS" only confuses and misleads the public into believing you have some
licensure or certification beyond the masters degree. "MA in Applied
Behavioral Science," would be would be the normal and acceptable way to
express the field in which you received your masters degree.
The proper way to correct your current problem is not to ask me to remove
my link to a public page on the internet on which you apparently mislead
the public as to your qualifications. The proper way is to contact the
conference and have them remove the offending "ABS" from their website.
The publicity about these web pages is not personal. Anyone can build such
a list by merely entering "MA ABS" into an internet search engine. I am
publishing what I believe to be examples of how the public is being
exposed to false and misleading claims. When the "ABS" has been removed
from the website and you no longer qualify to be included as an example,
please let me know and I will happily remove you from the list.
Sincerely,
Floyd Else, MA, LMHC, NCC
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From: Christine xxxxxx
3.
To: Floyd Else
Subject: Re: Your "ABS" Question
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006
Dear Floyd,
I contacted a lawyer about this question. His reply is
that listing MA ABS is NOT illegal nor is it unethical. He said that it is
possible that it is incorrect, but that would have to be checked on
through all the regular legal channels.
I hope that LIOS will find out the answer to this, so that all of us LIOS
graduates can correctly state what our degree is. I know that all the very
excellent and ethical therapists from LIOS want that. I would ask you to
remove the inflammatory words of unethical and illegal and use the words,
" may be incorrect." After all, this is not some kind of battle, is it?
Aren't we all on the same team?
I believe that everyone wants his or her professional degrees to be listed
correctly; I know I do. I would appreciate your not assuming the worst,
but knowing that we all want the same thing: for degrees to be listed
accurately.
Thank you.
Christine
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4.
From : Floyd Else
Sent : Sunday, September 24, 2006
To : Christine XXXXXXX
Subject : Your "ABS" Loin-Cloth
Dear Christine:
I can tell that you have not read all the pages on my site that are
devoted to the
"MA ABS"
dispute. Please do so. There are several pages--follow the links at the
top of the page.
I agree that LIOS made a mistake if, as you said, they urged their
graduates to use ABS after their MA and thus to imply that you all had
additional licensure or certification beyond your masters degree. I
agree that LIOS made a mistake, if they urged their graduates to use ABS
after their MA and thus encourage their graduates to engage in behavior
that I believe to be unethical and unprofessional.
Can you imagine the morass of unintelligible professional initials that
would bloom everywhere, if all those with an MA or MS were to add the rest
of the initials on their certificate to their credentials?
I agree that this may be an issue that will be settled in a court of law
with attendant publicity. I fully expect that.
Do you remember the story of "The Emperor's New Clothes"? Well, this
is the time to point out that the expensive "ABS" loin-cloth that
the LIOS tailor has given you, is actually invisible.
And LIOS has left all their graduates out there to be
exposed.
The pointing fingers have begun. Please do not expect mine to be the only one.
Best wishes,
Floyd Else, MA, LMHC, NCC
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Call to action.
From: (Anonymous 1)
A.
To: Floyd Else
Subject: /CHANGES MADE - PLEASE REMOVE MY NAME/
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006
Floyd,
I have removed ABS from my website. Please remove my name from your list
ASAP.
This is my last note before getting the heck out of this ABS battle biz.
Just wanted to tell you I know many of the people you listed on the
page, and those I know I find to be good therapists, good people, and
ethical people overall. I do not know anyone who has been twirling their
mustache and laughing evilly at their pulling the wool over people's
eyes by using ABS to fool consumers into thinking they are more
qualified than an Antioch or SPU grad. (I note a lot of SPU grads who
put MA MFT after their name too).
It has been, as you have noted, a defacto norm for LIOS grads for some
years now, and most have been following it - not on anyone's orders or
even LIOS's recommendation (there has been none that I saw), but from
seeing what the person before them did. We all graduate as good
beginner therapists, and pretty virginal small-business-people.
It's amazing to see a bright person struggle with getting their own
business cards or web site for the first time - but I've seen it over
and over again with new therapists.
Anyways, take care, over and out..................
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From : Floyd Else
B.
Sent : Wednesday, September 20, 2006 1:39 PM
To : (Anonymous 1)
Subject : Yep, I agree.
Dear
(Anonymous 1):
Thanks for your comments. I agree that LIOS graduates have no evil
intent and are only doing what others have done, but I disagree about
whether LIOS is responsible.
This whole thing got started when I wrote some material on "generic
initials" being used as counselor credentials and in the next paragraph,
mentioned LIOS "mistakenly encouraging" the use of ABS.
LIOS jumped all over me and insisted that the comment be changed or
removed. I was confused at first, but then realized that they were
complaining about my use of "mistakenly." They were doing it on purpose
and felt that they had every right to do so.
Have no doubt. LIOS has encouraged the use of ABS and is extremely
reluctant to give it up. The president of LIOS has used the ABS acronym
in correspondence with me. I have no idea why they started using
ABS in the beginning, years ago. Back then I think it was probably
ignorance and a desire to have their graduates look special.
But now I think it is an example of
"academic inbreeding" in an organization. Many universities will not
hire their own graduates as teachers or administrators--only those from
other schools. I have the feeling that too many of the people associated
in the administration of LIOS are "MA ABS" graduates and "just don't
know what normal is."
I have not set out to harm anyone, but it is apparent to me that LIOS
just doesn't get the idea that they were doing something wrong. The only
way that I could hope to effect change was to expose this practice to
public scrutiny. Hopefully, they will get enough public feedback
to reconsider.
Best wishes,
Floyd Else, MA, LMHC, NCC
Webmaster: http://www.CounselingSeattle.com
PO Box 6714, Bellevue, WA. 98008-0714
Added note: October 2006,
Bastyr LIOS officially reversed this policy and asked alumni to use "MA"
or write their degree out it out as "MA in applied behavioral science."
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Call to action.
From: Dennis McCarthy
1.
To: Counselingseattle.com
Subject: Your Note About Bastyr/LIOS
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006
Floyd-
I’ve been visiting your site recently and was planning to send you a
check to list my practice. When I went to the site this morning to
print out the application form I found your note about Bastyr/LIOS.
I am a recent LIOS graduate and have decided not to advertise on your
site. While I respect your right to run your site as you see fit (I
didn’t have a problem being listed as MA as opposed to MA/ABS) I think
posting the ongoing discussion between you and LIOS is unprofessional
and reduces the value of your site to me as a practitioner.
Dennis McCarthy MA/ABS
dennismccarthy@xxxxxxxx.net
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2.
From: Floyd Else
To: Dennis McCarthy
Subject: My Note About Bastyr University/LIOS Leadership Institute of
Seattle
Date: Saturday, August 05, 2006
Dear Dennis McCarthy:
Thank you for writing. I appreciate your note.
However, my interest in professional initials started a long time ago when
I was just a fellow looking for a counselor. I was confused by all the
counselor initials, had no idea what they meant, and couldn't find them in
a reference.
If you could begin to imagine the time and energy that I have expended
over the years to develop my
acronym dictionary
and make it available to everyone with online access,
you would realize that my major focus is on informing and educating the
public.
Therefore, I don't consider it to be unprofessional to raise a public
stink or to let people know where the smell is coming from. Please forgive
me, but I don't want unsuspecting members of the public to be mislead by
counselors who sign their names with extra, unnecessary, misleading
initials such as MA/ABS that falsely suggests they have additional
licensure or certification beyond the MA.
Thank you for sharing your feelings. Please accept my honest feelings in
return.
Floyd Else, MA, LMHC Webmaster http://www.CounselingSeattle.com PO Box
6714 Bellevue, WA 98008-0714
[Ups, I forgot to thank Dennis for recognizing
my First Amendment rights to free speech.]
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Call to
Action:
CounselingSeattle.com holds
that it is unethical and unprofessional for counselors to advertise
their counseling or coaching practice with the misleading degree
acronyms or meaningless generic initials. In doing so they are falsely
implying that they have some special
training certification or licensure beyond their degree
and deliberately mislead people searching for a counselor--people who are
in pain and despair, distressed, often temporarily or chronically
mentally ill, or their loved ones who are searching for qualified help.
[Please see the extracts from Washington law and various professional
ethics codes (below) and see if you don't agree!]
If you agree with CounselingSeattle.com that counselors,
therapists or coaches who continue to use the unauthorized or misleading
generic professional initials such "BA, MFT," "MA, MHC," or "MA, ABS"
are confusing and misleading the public, please help us communicate with the offending
counselors below. Give these counselors a
call or an email and let them know how YOU feel about it--and why!
Perhaps YOU with your
personal experiences either as a user of mental health services or as a
mental health professional, can explain it to them in a way that they
will understand. We could use your help.
Floyd Else, MA, LMHC,
Webmaster
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